I've been trying to figure out how Chalmers Johnson meant his statement, "The Vietnam War was ended by Vietnam veterans." Was he applauding the vets or condemning them, as many have done?
I have said for many years that it really was the GI's that ended the war. I include ourselves in that category. The gov't was scared of returning vets, and the GI's in Nam didn't/wouldn't fight anymore. Maybe the only thing the "vet liars"(easier to just lump them all together) had right, remember they have access to info we will never have, we stopped the war. Right on! I belive they think when they say that, it is derogatory, best compliment I have every had. That is what we were trying to do and while I don't want to take too much credit, I'll take it and will let the rest of redneck amerika know(I know, attitude). I guess I'm still feeling my oats a little, but probably lost another of those "9 lives" a few days ago at work. I had a ditch wall cave in, got me to a little over the waist. Quick action by track hoe operater kept a lot of the wall off me, was able to get out with a few bruises and a little sore for a few days, but still kicking(and really, really wishing I was back in LOS-Thailand). Always watch 6,
I do believe that we did much more than we thought we were doing, although I wish it could have been more, sooner and longer lasting. We just tried to get on with our lives while the bad guys regrouped and planned a take over of our country.
Col. Hackworth's death is a great loss to all of us. Truly a person that never forgot the oath he took to defend the constitution. I'm sure shrub and all the chickenhawks are celebrating. Always watch 6...Wayne
I think y'all are correct about VVAW's part in ending the war. And, yes it is too bad that we let Nixon's appointee to VP (Ford replacing Agnew) become president. It would have played out much better if "the movement" had said they were all tainted...we want Ellsburg or one of the Bergen brothers. Ahh, hindsite -- or is that rectal vision?
But you are correct, I agree; the neo-cons have plotted a takeover of the democracy. I fear that those at the top of Big Business in the corporate culture are much more sinister than your run-of-the-mill Republican. They are playing the religious right with the abortion and gay issues, but I think they have given up on democracy. I think they are tired of the tax, environmental, human resources, health care, and all the rest of the policies that seem to change with every administration. I am afraid that they actually see the Chinese style of capitalism as a better alternative: If the government says you will build widgets, then you show up sober to build widgets or go to jail.
I do not understand how the corporate capitalists are dealing with the Chinese bureaucracy, but they seem to be working together just fine. I'll wager we see a major corporate-Chinese presence in Cuba within a year after Castro dies.
I am tending toward pessimism lately. I am not sure “they” aren’t in control already. The elections are starting to look doubtful to me. We had always assumed that there was less statistical variation in the vote-counting process than there seems to be now. It is complicated to organize a secure election in a country as complex as the USA. We may be among the luckiest of all generations of human history. I am afraid that our grandchildren are going to be in a “road-warrior” society. Ever notice how much the Iraq news looks like the movie “Road warrior”?
Way back when, as a student in Milwaukee, I tried to voice my conscience with "the movement," I knew that the non-violent protests did not have the veracity that became a reality when I and John (Kniffin) got together with Terry (DuBose - finally!) in Austin.
The voice of the vets who brought the truth to the "peace movement" was the piece that brought the war to ending. There was always the element of "Well, you people just don't know the truth" or "you just want to avoid the draft" (true - unfortunately those are many of the self-serving SOBs who are the major players in the money and power game going on today)... when the vets and the GIs were on the front lines of the march or the demonstrations, the powers that were could not do anything - but lie and say you all weren't vets etc etc etc...as the powers that be are trying to do today in the rewrite of history. thanks for being there - and making the truth be known.
Once again, you are right on the money with your comments re the veterans ending the war! There is no doubt in my military mind that VVAW was the catalyst for "respectable" America to rally around with their deepening feelings that something was terribly wrong, and they did...and the Nixon government and anti-everything groups on the Left all vied for VVAW cover for their agendas; whether it be the revolutionary political growth of the Anti-war Left, or the attempt by the government to drive VVAW toward violent action (or reaction, as it were) in order to discredit them. But, in the end; it was the imagary and actions of the VVAW that brought Nixon and his administration to it's knees. And, I like you, when you write Right on! I believe they think when they say that, it is derogatory, best compliment I have every had. That is what we were trying to do and while I don't want to take too much credit, I'll take it and will let the rest of redneck amerika know(I know, attitude). I also believe that it is indeed a MAJOR compliment! I also think that the time has come for all of us to shake off that revolutionary anti-elitist conditioning from back in The Day, and own up to our defeats and our successes, as we are now beginning to do, i.e. TTU & VetSpeak; in order that we can learn from them, and so that others cannot ever again steal the flag or define the meaning or the Truth of our actions, and the true import of those actions regarding the question of what our impact as anti-war veterans was. Good words, Brother; thanks.
5 comments:
POSTED BY WAYNE BEVERLY
I have said for many years that it really was the GI's that ended the war. I include ourselves in that category. The gov't was scared of returning vets, and the GI's in Nam didn't/wouldn't fight anymore. Maybe the only thing the "vet liars"(easier to just lump them all together) had right, remember they have access to info we will never have, we stopped the war. Right on! I belive they think when they say that, it is derogatory, best compliment I have every had. That is what we were trying to do and while I don't want to take too much credit, I'll take it and will let the rest of redneck amerika know(I know, attitude). I guess I'm still feeling my oats a little, but probably lost another of those "9 lives" a few days ago at work. I had a ditch wall cave in, got me to a little over the waist. Quick action by track hoe operater kept a lot of the wall off me, was able to get out with a few bruises and a little sore for a few days, but still kicking(and really, really wishing I was back in LOS-Thailand). Always watch 6,
POSTED BY WAYNE BEVERLY
I do believe that we did much more than we thought we were doing, although I wish it could have been more, sooner and longer lasting. We just tried to get on with our lives while the bad guys regrouped and planned a take over of our country.
Col. Hackworth's death is a great loss to all of us. Truly a person that never forgot the oath he took to defend the constitution. I'm sure shrub and all the chickenhawks are celebrating. Always watch 6...Wayne
POSTED BY PEACEVET
I think y'all are correct about VVAW's part in ending the war. And, yes it is too bad that we let Nixon's appointee to VP (Ford replacing Agnew) become president. It would have played out much better if "the movement" had said they were all tainted...we want Ellsburg or one of the Bergen brothers. Ahh, hindsite -- or is that rectal vision?
But you are correct, I agree; the neo-cons have plotted a takeover of the democracy. I fear that those at the top of Big Business in the corporate culture are much more sinister than your run-of-the-mill Republican. They are playing the religious right with the abortion and gay issues, but I think they have given up on democracy. I think they are tired of the tax, environmental, human resources, health care, and all the rest of the policies that seem to change with every administration. I am afraid that they actually see the Chinese style of capitalism as a better alternative: If the government says you will build widgets, then you show up sober to build widgets or go to jail.
I do not understand how the corporate capitalists are dealing with the Chinese bureaucracy, but they seem to be working together just fine. I'll wager we see a major corporate-Chinese presence in Cuba within a year after Castro dies.
I am tending toward pessimism lately. I am not sure “they” aren’t in control already. The elections are starting to look doubtful to me. We had always assumed that there was less statistical variation in the vote-counting process than there seems to be now. It is complicated to organize a secure election in a country as complex as the USA. We may be among the luckiest of all generations of human history. I am afraid that our grandchildren are going to be in a “road-warrior” society. Ever notice how much the Iraq news looks like the movie “Road warrior”?
Wishing for Peace
POSTED BY CATHY KNIFFIN
Way back when, as a student in Milwaukee, I tried to voice my conscience with "the movement," I knew that the non-violent protests did not have the veracity that became a reality when I and John (Kniffin) got together with Terry (DuBose - finally!) in Austin.
The voice of the vets who brought the truth to the "peace movement" was the piece that brought the war to ending. There was always the element of "Well, you people just don't know the truth" or "you just want to avoid the draft" (true - unfortunately those are many of the self-serving SOBs who are the major players in the money and power game going on today)... when the vets and the GIs were on the front lines of the march or the demonstrations, the powers that were could not do anything - but lie and say you all weren't vets etc etc etc...as the powers that be are trying to do today in the rewrite of history. thanks for being there - and making the truth be known.
Peace - cathy
Once again, you are right on the money with your comments re the veterans ending the war! There is no doubt in my military mind that VVAW was the catalyst for "respectable" America to rally around with their deepening feelings that something was terribly wrong, and they did...and the Nixon government and anti-everything groups on the Left all vied for VVAW cover for their agendas; whether it be the revolutionary political growth of the Anti-war Left, or the attempt by the government to drive VVAW toward violent action (or reaction, as it were) in order to discredit them. But, in the end; it was the imagary and actions of the VVAW that brought Nixon and his administration to it's knees. And, I like you, when you write Right on! I believe they think when they say that, it is derogatory, best compliment I have every had. That is what we were trying to do and while I don't want to take too much credit, I'll take it and will let the rest of redneck amerika know(I know, attitude). I also believe that it is indeed a MAJOR compliment! I also think that the time has come for all of us to shake off that revolutionary anti-elitist conditioning from back in The Day, and own up to our defeats and our successes, as we are now beginning to do, i.e. TTU & VetSpeak; in order that we can learn from them, and so that others cannot ever again steal the flag or define the meaning or the Truth of our actions, and the true import of those actions regarding the question of what our impact as anti-war veterans was. Good words, Brother; thanks.
Semper Fi!
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