Since Terry DuBose's appearance on Fox cable on 4/23, there has been much discussion about this topic. As a starting point, here are Scott Camil's comments:
POSTED BY SCOTT CAMIL
Jane Fonda was a wealthy person who could have ignored the war and not been involved in controversy. She didn't have to worry about being drafted. She sacrificed her privacy to do what her conscience called for. I salute her for that. Yes, it may have been a mistake to allow herself to be photographed behind an anti-aircraft gun. People make mistakes. I don't know anyVietnam veterans, myself included, who would not change some of the things we did in Nam. We were young. It's more important to me what a person's motivations were rather than whether they made a mistake. I believe that Jane's motivations were pure, that she had no intentions to hurt us, the veterans. I had no intentions to kill innocent civilians, I just got caught up in the carnage. I think we should not let the other side frame the debate. How many mistakes did our government make?
They were wrong about the Gulf of Tonkin. They were wrong to violate the Geneva accords, signed andagreed to by both the French and the Vietnamese, the actual warring parties. There were many provisions that the United States violated, sending arms, training soldiers, installing Diem and so on. One of the main motivations for the US was to not allow the Vietnamese people to democratically elect a leader that would reunite the country of Vietnam. Why? Because we knew that Ho Chi Minh would win and that was unacceptable to us. (Mandate for Change, Dwight Eisenhower) Going to war to stop Democracy does not have any integrity. Trying to stopthat war is where the integrity is. The crimes of nixon and kissinger are also much worse than what Jane did. They lied about a secret plan to end the war. They rejected a treaty offer to end the war and then, after more than 20,000 moreAmerican lives were lost, many more wounded and hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese killed and wounded, we accepted the treaty. To me, this crime so far overshadows Jane's mistake of sitting behind that gun that it is almost nonexistent in the big picture.
What's really going on is that the right wants to divert the attention away fromthe guilt of what our government did by starting this illegal war andits official conduct such as "Free Fire Zones", "Search and Destroy operations" and mostly using the dead as a measure of success officiallyknown as "Body Count". They never talk about things such as My Lai. The right also ignores things such as the use of agent orange and what that did to us and Vietnam. The right seeks to make all wars started byus just and moral and that is just not the case.
I think that on this issue we should be focused on what hell, suffering and death Jane and the Anti-War Movement were trying to stop. It's about honest attempts by citizens in a democracy to stop an illegalwar. It's about the steps that these people took to try to correct thelies being fed to the citizens of our democracy by the government to secure support for an immoral, illegal war. When you weigh Jane Fonda's mistake on one side of the scale and the Lies, conduct of our government and motivations of our government on theother side, Jane's mistake doesn't even register. Don't let them frame this debate.
Scott
2 comments:
Comments from Calixto Cabrera:
What's with this "Aid and Comfort to the enemy" thing becoming such a big deal? Look, it seems simple to me, if anyone levels this charge at me, I'm going to look them in the eye and ask them, "How do I speak out against an injustice or that which I oppose for moral reasons and at the same time disallow someone else or some other government from using that to their political advantage"? If they can give me some way of doing that, then I will use that technic, but, if they don't know how (and I'm sure they don't) then I'm going to say, "So be it, people who see a crime commited and don't speak out are complicit in that crime". I have no intention of keeping quiet about the war crimes that I saw, that I commited, and what I know about. If this makes America look bad in the eyes of the world and it gives aid and comfort to these asshole enemies that this country has then so be it. I'm a lot more interested in the US government doing the right thing by it's people and by the people in the world than I am worried about our having America's prestine image tarnish, because it is an image that is shallow and devoid of moral value (at least when it comes to these war crimes that it continues to try and cover up). I also support Jane Fonda even though I know that in some area she made mistakes. We all made mistakes as Scott Camil said. I apologize for mine, she has apologized for hers. Remember that old thing in the bible about "He who be without sin throw the fist stone". I apologies for the mistakes that I made during the anti-war era, but not for my moral and political stance. If anymore of these Swift vets or right wing talk shows want to debate it, I'm in for that too. Again I commend you Terry for going on that show and speaking to and in defence of VVAW. We were correct then, we were correct and victoriuos at Texas Tech and we are still correct. Love & Peace Calixto
Windbender said...
I am going to have to take this latest Jane Fonda very offensive (I find) political offensive that is currently being perpetrated by the right wing sleaze mongers and Newspeak proponants as just another sign of the shallowness of their ideology. The facts are that Jane Fonda and millions of others who shared her perspective took action supporting their convictions that we were involved in a failed venture in Vietnam, and that further deaths on either side would be precious lives wasted due to political strategy and maneuvering at home; and in the eyes of the rest of the world, a failed policy of economic and geopolitical Imperialism.
Needless deaths, none-the-less.
In my opinion; the real crime is in supporting the perpetuation of Needless Deaths to further financial or personal/party political gain. There are, in fact, those who supported just such things with regards to Vietnam, and who are now the power brokers and attack dogs for our current administration during these trying times. The same folks, actually, who continually perpetuate these attacks on Jane Fonda in order to take the eye off the ball regarding the Truth of their own actions and policies, and their corrupt un-constitutional take over of our government institutions and our politically nurturing culture...and their unpatriotic theft of our Flag and what it truly stands for. How can one hate Jane Fonda for her actions, and not be repulsed and stirred to political action by the facts regarding those who defile her name.
Fact is; Jane deserves the outspoken accolades of all American supporters of life and peace on the planet. Not the virulent, tactically oriented, disrespect of the hatemongers of the right. She deserves the respect of all freedom and equality loving women for her demonstration of the ability of American women to interact successfully with courage, conviction, and force on the world political stage. She deserves the respect of all of us who were there in Vietnam for being the first to gain the release of POWs from Vietnam, at a time when the Nixon administration was in denial on that issue, and couldn't even negotiate with the Hanoi government representatives what the shape of the "peace" table should be...how many lives were lost while that debate raged? More, I suspect, than were lost due to Jane's oft attacked and apologized for bad judgement in being duped into the NVA PR coup of having her get up there and sit on that artillery piece. Can such a foolish act truly overshadow all of the progress towards peace that was made from her courageous visit? Only if we allow it to. Only if we don't tell the minions of the right that we recognize this disrespect and character assasination for just what it is; a cover for their surreptitious, well orchestarted takeover of American culture and politics, and their shameful attacks on the American Constitution.
As my friend, Scott Camil wrote in the Thread Article of this comment; "I think that on this issue we should be focused on what hell, suffering and death Jane and the Anti-War Movement were trying to stop. It's about honest attempts by citizens in a democracy to stop an illegalwar. It's about the steps that these people took to try to correct thelies being fed to the citizens of our democracy by the government to secure support for an immoral, illegal war. When you weigh Jane Fonda's mistake on one side of the scale and the Lies, conduct of our government and motivations of our government on theother side, Jane's mistake doesn't even register." Scott gets it right a lot. Hopefully, more and more Americans will as well, as we continue to Speak Truth To Power at every level. Now, as we did then.
Together Then...
Together Again...
Bill Hager
VetSpeak@alaskapress.org
www.VetSpeak.com
Post a Comment